Curse

Ebony Shadowheart · Jun 11, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taixen

This is amazing, I mean, I can't seem to think of any violent people in German history before Video Games were around.

No....there couldn't possibly have been violence before video games came into being! Everything was peachy before video games:

No Crusades.....

No slavery.....

No civil wars.....

No Jack the Ripper....

etc, etc, etc....

No, was all a figment of the world's imagination.

Inde · Jun 11, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

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Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

No offense Inde, but the topic is related to 'violent games to be (possibly) banned in Germany', not 'violent games and their influence on society'. Sure, the latter is pretty much included in the former, because the former is a WIDER AREA of the topic itself. How are we supposed to possibly discuss ANYTHING about this topic without understanding and giving examples of e.g. how politics work in the Germany and/or other countries concerning this issue? Seriously, what's the point? Close the topic already then. I can take the blows from others if you do so, couldn't care less.

AmbientMelody, as I all ready stated that I realize the contradiction of not being able to discuss one without the other, if you had seen some of the all ready deleted posts it would make much more sense to you. Some have covered blatant misinformation, people's own versions of history and politics, what school systems are teaching or not teaching in regards to politics, people's opinions of Germany/Japan and vile comments associated with their opinion on each and more. This topic is related to gaming and you can see that many are staying on the topic of gaming without straying too far. The only posts that are being deleted are those that deal exclusively with politics (and people's versions of history). While those that attempt to bridge the 2 topics, within reason, are being allowed to stay.

DreamWind · Jun 11, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

They had that law because it was very necessary for the infrastructure of the state.

Still doesn't make it right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Likewise, if the Chinese believe that mmos are detrimental to the development of their kids (some good studies by the Chinese on this - persuasive data that chinese kids who play mmos do significantly worse in school) they have every right to stop it, according to their laws.

I'd like to see those studies. For every study saying video games are detrimental, I'll show you a study that says they aren't detrimental and can actually be positive. I could probably also find a study showing any given thing on earth is detrimental. There is no proof that games are detrimental to the development of anybody outside of a few cases. And in those cases video games were often the substitute for something else that could have been much worse anyways (drugs alcohol etc). If you are saying video games are detrimental in any way, you will have to ban any and all entertainment and diversions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You can say violent video games are a problem, and that you'd never be influenced enough by them to go out and kill someone. This forum is a microscopic percentage of the world that plays video games - doubtless there are many who are adversely influenced by them.

If there are a few cases, is that enough to ban them for an entire population? You could make an easier argument that alcohol or cigarettes should be banned. Banning video games to me is hilarious.

sigshane · Jun 11, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

"Violent games lower the inhibition level for real violence and spree killers always played such games before they did the crime."

S'true, guys. And as soon as I find that Ruby Maul of Fortitude in my garage, you all are toast.

Ghost Omel · Jun 11, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

No NO go for etarnal blade...I mean Ghostly swords that will leave a mark -_-

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 11, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taixen

This is amazing, I mean, I can't seem to think of any violent people in German history before Video Games were around.

You gotta be sarcastic. What about the fact that they created 2 world wars less than a 100 years after it's creation way before video games were even thought of as something that could exist? God if this comment isn't sarcastic then I gotta scream!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

The challenge of a game is supposed to be fun, the exploration aspect, the variety, the graphics, whatever. But you're beginning to enter a gray area when the violence and/or degradation is supposed to generate satisfaction. Rape games? I mean, really? Someone of you might say, "Well, that's just a pocket demographic" - so all that means is that they haven't been socially validated yet. When Doom (the original) was new it was considered odd, and only strange people played it.

Welcome to reality sir. Violence is fun. We aren't beginning to enter that gray area, we have always been there: Gladiator battles in ancient rome, public executions in the 18th century of France, Slaughtering of innocent people during the crusades and so on.

What differs between modern society and the ancient kind is that the violence in our entertainment today is fictive. Video games, movies, comic books and sports. It's all made for our entertainment and doesn't actually harm us physically. Isn't fictive violence actually good in that aspect? Isn't it good that we have these things to entertain us instead of having to create our own violence?

Of course there are people who are easily affected by violence in the entertainment industry, but we are generally less violent in modern times than we have been throughout the history of the world. Even though we have more powerful weapons, we don't all carry around a gun and just shoot it off while we are bored. Of course there will always be bad eggs, that's just how reality is, but blaming the entertainment industry completely is a load of *insert bad word here*

Don't you agree?

Ghost Omel · Jun 11, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I do..thast what i have been saying in this thread under a different words...

Chicken Ftw · Jun 11, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Dear Guru: When someone posts something that makes no sense when viewed as anything but sarcasm, there's a good chance that it might actually be sarcasm. Hard concept, I know.

On-topic, gaming is the new Elvis. Your children will all be corrupted, beware~

In all seriousness, there are much larger and more pressing issues to be dealing with.

Cale Roughstar · Jun 11, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

On-topic, gaming is the new Elvis. Your children will all be corrupted, beware~

Sometimes it really amazes me how well the world is doing right now, since the children were being so irreversibly corrupted when TV became big. And even more miraculous is how well that generation turned out when the novel was sending them all to hell in a hand basket.

I can guarantee that our children's road to hell is already paved with some technology that will be invented in the next 20 years.

Completely off topic, does anyone else see pedobear in the CursorMania ad at the top?

glacialphoenix · Jun 11, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

The way I see it, I think it's also a lot easier for people to blame the games than it is to admit that maybe, just maybe, they screwed up.

If a kid who plays an FPS takes a gun, goes out and shoots people, it is unfortunately a far tastier tidbit to claim that he was negatively influenced by the games he played than to point out things like, say, maybe his parents shouldn't have been leaving those guns lying around. Or maybe he was being bullied in school.

Not that either actually excuses the act of shooting someone, but claiming it's all the fault of videogames... that sounds a bit like denial to me, and it won't be the first time, either. I mean, we've had things like Patricia Pulling and D&D, so...

fenix · Jun 11, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I remember studying this sort of thing in Psychology in first year at University.

You know what the main conclusion was?

That violent people can become violent, after playing violent video games. They ALSO can become violent after watching violent TV. Or listening to violent music. Note; violent PEOPLE. Not regular people.

Regular people can distinguish between being angry/violent in a game and irl. Violent people, not as much.

There is no evidence to suggest it makes people violent. That's all because of that jackass Jack Thompson. Violent video games CAN trigger violence in VIOLENT PEOPLE.

Suggesting it 'makes' you violent is propaganda.

Snow Bunny · Jun 12, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You know what the main conclusion was?

That violent people can become violent, after playing violent video games. They ALSO can become violent after watching violent TV. Or listening to violent music. Note; violent PEOPLE. Not regular people.

I agree with what a lot of what you all are saying. However, I will continue to argue this point because someone has to.

With games, there's immersion. With television there's not. I think that's the primary difference between gaming and television, which is why I've never believed there to be a valid comparison between the two in that respect.

bungusmaximus · Jun 12, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

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That's not awesome, and it's strange to think so. The puzzle aspect of the hitman game might be cool, the strategy needed to carry out the hit might be fun, but the actual blood splatter isn't supposed to be desirable.

That all boils down to taste, Might just as well ban horror movies too then, or a thriller like Silence of the Lambs which is far more sadistic then any PC game I ever seen. I, however, think that movie is a splendid work of art. There's definitely a sadist in me, and a lot of anger. If I don't have a safe way of channeling that (through kickboxing, violent art, heavy metal and whatnot) I can't function properly. Other people actually think I'm rather gentle, go figure

.

Rod Stewart makes me violent, hands down, OMGBANHIMLULZWTF!!!!

There's lots of things that I don't like, and every day again I am grateful to have the choice to simply turn them off.

Azadaleou · Jun 12, 2009, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Ah this is what happens when there is no Constitution. The government can easily make decisions for the people without them having any say in the matter. Violent video games being banned in the USA would never happen, it would be impossible for it to. Sucks for those who live in Germany though.

bungusmaximus · Jun 12, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

You can't just legislate everything, people must make up the rest as they go. I don't mond that as long as those people aren't being idiots

4thVariety · Jun 12, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

Ah this is what happens when there is no Constitution.

Germany has a constitution thank you very much. And I dare say it is more modern and more liberal than anything around.

It's just when judges and politicians are interpreting the constitution that things go awry in Germany. Same in the U.S., when patriotic acts try to install safety above life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The centerpiece of post war Germany is the idea of human dignity as the one thing that is never to be hurt. I hear you laughing and with good right, but sometimes politicians show some hypocrisy and go after things to deter from other stupid things they are doing at the same time.

Which is why Germany is still discussion the finer points of chainsawing Locusts and ripping off heads in God of War instead of demanding an answer why the list of East German spies handsomely provided by the U.S. is not up for public access. One could get the impression some high ranking German politicians are on that list. Don't mind that though, violent games, violent games. Elect me, you will be safe!

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 12, 2009, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

Ah this is what happens when there is no Constitution. The government can easily make decisions for the people without them having any say in the matter. Violent video games being banned in the USA would never happen, it would be impossible for it to. Sucks for those who live in Germany though.

Germany has a constitution m8. It's a little different than the American, but basically the same.

Sjeng · Jun 12, 2009, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Banning violent games is not a solution. If people are worried their kids will be influenced too much by games, they simply shouldn't let them play them, or restrict the amount of time they spend on them each day. It's called "parenting".
Of course, if you let your kids play too much games, any games at all, they'll fail at school because they're not spending enough time on their studies/homework.
And as Fenix already pointed out: Violent video games CAN trigger violence in VIOLENT PEOPLE.
The solution isn't banning violent games alltogether, it's to be aware if your children are violent in any way, and trying to help them control/manage their violence/anger. That's also parenting. Besides, isn't there an MPAA rating on games?
The government shouldn't be the one doing the parenting for the entire country. This also happens a lot in the Netherlands. People here find it extremely patronizing. It's the parent's job to watch over their children. Let the government deal with the really important stuff please, there's already enough going on (economic crisis for example) to be worrying about violence in games.

bungusmaximus · Jun 12, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

The government shouldn't be the one doing the parenting for the entire country. This also happens a lot in the Netherlands. People here find it extremely patronizing.

Pretty spot on my fellow country(wo)man. Funny thing is that people find it patronizing, but hardly ever object. My parents knew their job way better then some goofy politician does. Government should be macro-ing, leave micro-ing to the people. If you take everyhing out of the people's hands they will become numb and vulnerable. After a while they will NEED people to tell them what to do with every move they make.

Longasc · Jun 12, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

Ah this is what happens when there is no Constitution.

There is no constitution, but the Grundgesetz (basic law) serves the same function. It works so well that not many demanded a new constitution after the reunification of Germany and that there still is none. You should also know who was responsible for spreading democracy in Germany after WW2 and defined the basic rules of democracy after 1945.

There are silly laws in several federal states of the USA, too. There are whole webpages that have lists of the most ridiculous laws. Gay marriages and no max speed limit on highways and less fuss about female nipples are also things that are not allowed everywhere in the USA.

We have some politicians that would make fine Republicans. Wolfgang Schaeuble for example would make a great spymaster for the american homeland security, and would observe everyone in order to protect him... from himself or something like that.

The "ban" of computergames would not mean a complete ban either. Games could not be displayed in stores or sold to persons younger than 18 years. This would hurt sales of course, but gamers would just order their games online, as many already do. Or ask their brother/friend/father to buy it for them.

This is no the first time certain computer games are heavily criticized and made the scapegoat for massacres and other things.
There is just little else to discuss before elections in the summer weeks, it is always useful to distract from real problems and issues.